Olivia Rodrigo - The Cure
Olivia Rodrigo is a Grammy-winning singer and songwriter. In June 2026, she released her third album, You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl So in Love. The day it came out, it broke streaming records on Spotify and Amazon Music, and it debuted at number one on the Billboard Charts. I talked to Olivia Rodrigo here in my studio, and I also visited her long-time producer and co-writer Dan Nigro at his studio. Dan Nigro won the Grammy for Producer of the Year in 2025, in part for his work with Olivia Rodrigo. For this episode, the two of them told me the story of making Olivia’s song “The Cure,” from the original voice memo to the final version.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/olivia-rodrigo.
Natalie Merchant - Sister Tilly
Donate to Dolly Parton's Imagination Library here: https://donate.imaginationlibrary.com/
Donate to Women's Media Center, co-founded by Gloria Steinem, here: https://act.womensmediacenter.com/a/support-wmc
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When I heard the news of Dolly Parton’s death, and then a few days later, of Gloria Steinem’s death, I thought about this song that Natalie Merchant wrote called "Sister Tilly." It’s about losing a generation of activist women who did so much in their lifetimes. And so I wanted to go back and revisit Natalie Merchant’s song, and her beautiful story about what it means to her. This episode originally came out in June 2023. —Hrishikesh
Natalie Merchant is an award-winning singer and songwriter from upstate New York. She was the lead singer of the band 10,000 Maniacs until she left in 1993. And then, as a solo artist, she’s put out nine albums over the last 30 years. Between 10,000 Maniacs and her solo work, she’s had multiple multi-platinum records.
In April 2023, Natalie put out her first album of new songs in nine years. It’s called Keep Your Courage. And for this episode, she talked to me about the song “Sister Tilly." It’s a eulogy for a fictional character – a woman who represents the generation of women who influenced her. Women who were activists in the 1960s and 70s, when she was growing up.
For more, visit songexploder.net/natalie-merchant.
Paula Cole - I Don't Want to Wait
Paula Cole is a singer, songwriter and producer from Massachusetts. She put out her first solo album, Harbinger, in 1994. Her second album, This Fire, came out in 1996 and was a real breakthrough; she was nominated for seven Grammys, and she won the Grammy for Best New Artist. In fact, that year she was the first woman in Grammy history to be nominated for Producer of the Year without a male collaborator. For this episode, Paula told me about how she made one of the big hits from that album: “I Don’t Want to Wait.” It spent 56 weeks on the Billboard charts. And then, it was heard by millions more, when it was used as the theme song for the hit TV show Dawson’s Creek.
These days, Paula has been reclaiming her old music in various ways. A couple of years ago, she re-recorded some of her songs, including “I Don’t Want to Wait.” And that's the version of the song that you’ll hear throughout this episode, and at the end, in its entirety. And on September 10, 2026, Paula is putting out an archival collection of her demos. It’s called Sonic Memoir: Demos 1989-1998. It includes the original demo of “I Don’t Want to Wait,” which you’ll also hear in the episode, as Paula tells the story of how she wrote and produced the song.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/paula-cole.
Charli XCX - Camera
Charli XCX is a Grammy-winning artist who has been making music since she was a teenager. In July 2026, she released her eighth album, Music, Fashion, Film. It debuted at number 1 on the UK charts—her 4th album in a row to hit number 1 there. In addition to her music career, for the last few years, she’s been acting in films. And for this episode, we talked about how those experiences inspired her song “Camera," and how she and producer Finn Keane figured out how to translate that into music.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/charli-xcx.
Mitski - Your Best American Girl
In 2016, Mitski did an episode of Song Exploder about her song “Your Best American Girl.” She had just released her second album, Puberty 2. Later, Pitchfork named “Your Best American Girl” one of the top 10 best songs of the past decade, and Billboard named it as one of the songs that defined the decade. And in honor of the 10th anniversary of the album, there’s a new deluxe version that’s out digitally, and a limited edition vinyl is coming in October. I thought this would be a good time to revisit Mitski’s episode, where she and her collaborator Patrick Hyland break down how “Your Best American Girl” was made.
To learn more, visit songexploder.net/mitski
Suki Waterhouse - Back in Love
Suki Waterhouse is a singer-songwriter, actress, and model from London. She released her first single in 2016, and her first album, I Can’t Let Go, in 2022, on Sub Pop. You might have seen her in the show Daisy Jones & The Six, which came out in 2023. Since then, she’s also had her first child, with her partner Robert Pattinson. And all of that history figured into her new album, Loveland. For this episode, Suki told me about how she made the song “Back in Love” with her longtime collaborators, producer Jules Apollinaire and songwriter Natalie Findlay. "Back in Love" was the first single from her album, but it was the last song that was written for it.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/suki-waterhouse.
Key Change: Questlove on Prince
My guest today is Ahmir Thompson, aka Questlove, the drummer and founding member of The Roots, as well as an author, a DJ, and an Oscar-winning film director.
A song that changed my life is “Double Trouble” by The Roots, and the liner notes that Questlove wrote to go with the song. There’s a change in the drum sound in that song that blew my mind, and Questlove wrote a little bit about the effort that went into getting that drum sound. And as a drummer myself, I wanted to know everything about that. And that moment 26 years ago was maybe when the first seed for Song Exploder got planted in my brain. So, getting to talk to him for this is really special for me.
Questlove has an encyclopedic knowledge of music. It’s really astounding. He knows so much about so many artists, and he’s just directed a new documentary about Earth, Wind & Fire, which is out now. But one of the artists he knows best is Prince. He was recently asked by Rolling Stone to rank the top 100 Prince songs. For this episode, we talked about the song that he put at #1 on that list.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/questlove.
Metric - Victim of Luck
Metric is a band from Canada that was formed in 1998. They’ve won four Juno Awards, including Group of the Year. Rolling Stone included them in their list of the 50 Greatest Canadian Artists of All Time. In April 2026, Metric released their 10th album, Romanticize the Dive. And for this episode, I spoke to Emily Haines and Jimmy Shaw about how they made the opening song on that album, “Victim of Luck.”
For more info, visit songexploder.net/metric.
Hayley Kiyoko - Girls Like Girls
Hayley Kiyoko is a singer, songwriter, author, and director from Los Angeles. She was a child actor on Disney and Nickelodeon, and briefly in a girl group called The Stunners. But then, she started her career as a solo artist. In 2015, she put out the EP This Side of Paradise, and one of the songs on it was “Girls Like Girls.” She co-wrote it with Lily May-Young and Owen Thomas, and it was produced by James Flannigan. Hayley co-directed the music video for it, and when the song and the video came out, it was an absolute phenomenon. It became a lesbian anthem; Rolling Stone named it one of the most inspiring LGBTQ songs of all time. Hayley’s legion of fans gave her the nickname “Lesbian Jesus.” In 2023, Hayley adapted the song into a bestselling coming-of-age novel. And in June 2026, she made her feature film directorial debut, with the movie adaptation of “Girls Like Girls.” For this episode, Hayley and I talked about how it all started with the making of that song.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/hayley-kiyoko.
Key Change: Tatiana Maslany on "Faceshopping" by Sophie
My guest today is the actor Tatiana Maslany. One of the things I find so compelling about Tatiana and her career is that the roles that she plays often contain multitudes—literally. She played over 10 different characters–clones, but with distinct personalities–in the TV show Orphan Black. And in the Marvel Universe, she played She-Hulk, who also had the very different alter ego of Jennifer Walters, a lawyer. And right now, she’s starring in the show Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed on AppleTV. When Tatiana prepares for her roles—and the roles within the roles—she often uses music to inspire and motivate her. Today, I got to talk to Tatiana about a song that’s been really important to her and her process. And that song is “Faceshopping” by Sophie.
If you’re not aware of Sophie’s music, she was an incredible, groundbreaking electronic artist from the UK. She was trans, and she passed away far too young, in 2021. But even in a short time, she made a big impact. In addition to her own music, she also produced tracks for Charli XCX, and Madonna, and more. In 2018, she released her breakthrough Grammy-nominated album, Oil of Every Pearl’s Un-Insides, which dealt a lot with her trans identity. And that’s the album that has the song “Faceshopping.”
For more info, visit songexploder.net/tatiana-maslany.
Paul McCartney - Ripples in a Pond
Paul McCartney is a singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and producer whose career spans more than six decades. As a member of The Beatles and later Wings and then with his own solo albums, he’s simply one of the most influential artists of all time. He has more accolades than I have time to list in this intro. But if you’re listening to this, you already know all that. In May 2026, he released his twentieth solo album, The Boys of Dungeon Lane. He co-produced it with Andrew Watt, who won the 2021 Grammy for Producer of the Year, and whose credits include working with Lady Gaga, The Rolling Stones, Justin Bieber, and Elton John. For this episode, I spoke to Paul McCartney about how he wrote and recorded his song "Ripples in a Pond."
For more info, visit songexploder.net/paul-mccartney.
Hot Chip - Boy From School
Hot Chip is a band from London made up of Alexis Taylor, Joe Goddard, Al Doyle, Owen Clarke, and Felix Martin. Their second album, The Warning, came out in 2006. It was nominated for a Mercury Prize, and named one of the best albums of the year by NME and Pitchfork. And later, NME would include it in their list of best albums of all time. For this episode, I talked to them about one of the songs from The Warning called “Boy From School.” You might have heard it in the second season of the show Beef on Netflix—the band’s also in the show—or you might have heard it on The Simpsons. You could have also heard the song in my car all the time in 2006. So I was very excited to talk to Alexis and Joe from Hot Chip about how “Boy from School” was made.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/hot-chip.
Key Change: Emma Straub
My guest today is the bestselling author Emma Straub. Her books include 'This Time Tomorrow,' 'Modern Lovers,' 'The Vacationers,' and more. And with her husband, Michael Fusco, she co-owns the beautiful Brooklyn bookstore Books Are Magic.
I'm so thrilled to have her on because, not only is she a wonderful writer, but Key Change is a series about music fandom and identity. And Emma's newest novel 'American Fantasy' is also about music fandom and identity. That story is set on a cruise ship centered around a nineties boy band and their fans.
But today, Emma's going to tell me her story about her own relationship with the music of The Magnetic Fields. Stephin Merritt from the Magnetic Fields was just named one of the greatest living American songwriters by the New York Times, and Emma’s introduction to their music was their 1999 triple album, '69 Love Songs.'
For more info, visit songexploder.net/emma-straub.
Key Change: Emma Straub on ‘69 Love Songs’ by The Magnetic Fields
My guest today is the bestselling author Emma Straub. Her books include 'This Time Tomorrow,' 'Modern Lovers,' 'The Vacationers,' and more. And with her husband, Michael Fusco, she co-owns the beautiful Brooklyn bookstore Books Are Magic.
I'm so thrilled to have her on because, not only is she a wonderful writer, but Key Change is a series about music fandom and identity. And Emma's newest novel 'American Fantasy' is also about music fandom and identity. That story is set on a cruise ship centered around a nineties boy band and their fans.
But today, Emma's going to tell me her story about her own relationship with the music of The Magnetic Fields. Stephin Merritt from the Magnetic Fields was just named one of the greatest living American songwriters by the New York Times, and Emma’s introduction to their music was their 1999 triple album, '69 Love Songs.'
For more info, visit songexploder.net/emma-straub.
The xx - Crystalised
The xx formed in 2005, when they were still in high school. They signed to the UK label Young, and put out their first album in 2009. It won the prestigious Mercury Prize, and was named one of the best albums of the year by Rolling Stone, Pitchfork and more. Since then, the Guardian has named it one of the best albums of the 21st century. This year, the three band members, Romy Croft, Oliver Sim, and Jamie xx played together as The xx for the first time in 8 years. I spoke to them in between the weekends at Coachella, where they were opening their sets with the song “Crystalised.” It’s the first song they ever released, back in April 2009, when the lineup also included Baria Qureshi on guitar. I spoke to Romy, Jamie and Oliver, here at my studio, about how they first found each other, and how they made “Crystalised.”
For more info, visit songexploder.net/the-xx.
Yusuf / Cat Stevens - Father and Son
The legendary singer/songwriter Yusuf / Cat Stevens released his first album in 1967. He’s a member of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and his albums have sold millions. In 2020, he released Tea for the Tillerman², a re-imagining of his hit 1970 album Tea for the Tillerman. In the song “Father & Son,” he sings a duet between the two title characters, doing both voices. But in the 2020 version, he approached this song in a kind of astonishing way—he recorded the part of the father, but for the part of the son, he used a live recording of himself from 1970, taken from a show he played at The Troubadour in Los Angeles. So the two parts are still both sung in his voice, but 50 years apart. In this episode, the 200th episode of Song Exploder, Yusuf / Cat Stevens tells the story of how he created, and then re-created “Father & Son.”
For more, visit songexploder.net/yusuf-cat-stevens.
The Memory Palace: The Thundering Herd, The Vanishing American
Today, we're sharing an episode of Nate DiMeo's wonderful podcast, The Memory Palace, which helped inspire both Song Exploder, and a song on my upcoming album. So today, I want to present a kind of two-part story. The first part: "The Thundering Herd, The Vanishing American," from The Memory Palace. And in the second half of the episode, I’ll tell you how it ended up unexpectedly unlocking a song that I’d been trying to figure out.
For more episodes of The Memory Palace, visit thememorypalace.us.
To pre-order my album visit keeledscales.com. To get tickets to one of my shows on tour, visit hrishikesh.co.
Hurray for the Riff Raff - Alibi
Alynda Segarra is a singer songwriter from the Bronx. They formed Hurray for the Riff Raff in 2007, and since then, they’ve released 8 albums. Their most recent is The Past Is Still Alive, which came out in 2024. It was named one of the best albums of the year in the New York Times, the Associated Press, Entertainment Weekly, and The Atlantic, and Pitchfork called it one of the best albums of the decade so far. For this episode, I spoke to Alynda about the first track on the album, “Alibi.”
For more info, visit songexploder.net/hurray-for-the-riff-raff.
Jack Harlow - Say Hello
Jack Harlow is from Louisville, Kentucky, and started performing and releasing music in 2015, when he was in high school. In 2020, he released his first album, which went double platinum. He was nominated for a Grammy for Best Rap Performance. He’s had multiple number one hits across his first three albums. For his fourth album, Monica, which just came out in March 2026, he switched things up dramatically. I was curious how and why—how did someone who had so much success as a rapper approach a new way of making music? So for this episode, I spoke to Jack Harlow about the song “Say Hello,” which is the closing track on Monica.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/jack-harlow.
Key Change: Baz Luhrmann on "Time After Time."
My guest today is Baz Luhrmann, the award-winning director whose films include Moulin Rouge!, Strictly Ballroom, The Great Gatsby, Elvis, and Romeo + Juliet. His newest film is EPiC: Elvis Presley in Concert, a critically acclaimed documentary about Elvis that’s playing right now in theaters and in IMAX. Before becoming a massively successful film director, Baz began his showbiz career as an actor, and as a ballroom dancer, in Australia. His first film was Strictly Ballroom, which came out in 1992, and became one of the highest-grossing Australian films of all time. It was originally a play, and there’s a song in the film that was part of the story all the way back when it was first performed on stage. And that’s what Baz and I talked about for this episode.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/baz-luhrmann.
Thompson Twins - Hold Me Now
Thompson Twins originally formed in 1977 in Sheffield, in the UK. “Hold Me Now,” their iconic hit, came out as a single in November 1983, and eventually on their 1984 album, Into the Gap. That album went to number 1 in the UK and went platinum in the US. The song spent 21 weeks on the Billboard Hot 100 chart. So for this episode, I talked to the founding member of Thompson Twins, Tom Bailey, and he told me how he and his bandmates, Alannah Currie and Joe Leeway, made “Hold Me Now.”
For more info, visit songexploder.net/thompson-twins.
Silvana Estrada - Como Un Pájaro
Silvana Estrada is a singer, songwriter, and producer from Veracruz, Mexico. She won the Latin Grammy for Best New Artist in 2022, and she’s been nominated for three others, including for her song “Como Un Pájaro,” which is the song that we talked about for this episode. It’s from her second album, which came out in 2025, but she started writing the song several years before that. So we talked about all the different versions of this song, and a couple of versions of Silvana herself, that emerged throughout the process.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/silvana-estrada.
Iron & Wine - Flightless Bird, American Mouth
This week, I wanted to go back and revisit the episode that I made with Iron & Wine in the fall of 2022 about the song "Flightless Bird, American Mouth." And there are a couple of reasons. One, there’s a new Iron & Wine album that’s coming out this month, called Hen’s Teeth. And secondly, I actually have a song of my own that’s coming out today, the same day as this episode, and it features Iron & Wine on the track. It’s called “Stray Dogs,” and it’s the first song from an album that I’m releasing in April, called In The Last Hour of Light. And this Iron & Wine episode of the podcast is what actually led to our collaboration on the song.
I’d been a huge fan of Iron & Wine for two decades, and this live taping, which happened in Wimberly, Texas, at the Blue Rock Artist Ranch and Studio, was the first time that I got to meet Sam Beam from Iron & Wine
So before we go back and listen to the episode itself, I thought it could be nice to talk to Sam about how this episode happened, and then how that led to the making of “Stray Dogs.”
For more, visit songexploder.net/iron-and-wine.
The Marías - No One Noticed
The Marías is a band from Los Angeles, made up of María Zardoya, Josh Conway, Jesse Perlman, and Edward James. They released their first EPs in 2017 and 2018, and their first album in 2021. But then, as you’ll hear, there was a period of a lot of uncertainty around the band’s future. Eventually, their second album, Submarine, came out in 2024, and it was incredibly successful. Stereogum called it one of the best albums of the year, and the band was nominated for a Grammy for Best New Artist. But all of that almost didn’t happen. I talked to María about the making of their hit song “No One Noticed.” The story’s beginning, middle, and end all took place during different eras of the band’s existence. In the middle section, when maybe they weren’t going to even be a band anymore, María enlisted the help of Grammy-nominated producer Gianluca Buccellati. And I spoke to Luca for this episode, as well.
For more, visit songexploder.net/the-marias.
Leon Thomas - Mutt
Leon Thomas is a singer, songwriter, producer, and actor. He’s nominated for six Grammys at this year’s Grammy Awards, including Best New Artist, Best R&B Album, and Album of the Year for Mutt. Mutt is his second album, and I talked to Leon about the title track, which was a breakout hit. He’d already won a Grammy for his work with SZA, but he reached a new level in his own career with this song and this album. I also spoke to David Phelps and Rob Gueringer, AKA D. Phelps and Freaky Rob, who produced the song.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/leon-thomas.
Key Change: John Green on "You'll Never Walk Alone."
My guest today is John Green. John is the award-winning, #1 bestselling author of books including 'Looking for Alaska,' 'The Fault in Our Stars,' 'Turtles All the Way Down,' 'The Anthropocene Reviewed,' and 'Everything is Tuberculosis.' John and his brother Hank Green have co-created a lot of projects together, including their massive YouTube channel, Vlogbrothers, and their podcast, 'Dear Hank and John.' He also serves on the Board of Trustees for global health nonprofit Partners in Health. And when I asked John if there was a piece of music that changed his life, he knew the answer right away: "You'll Never Walk Alone" by Gerry and the Pacemakers.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/john-green.
Hit-Boy and Nipsey Hussle - Racks In the Middle (feat. Roddy Ricch and Hit-Boy)
Hit-Boy is an award-winning producer and rapper from LA. He’s one of my all-time favorite producers, from “Backseat Freestyle” by Kendrick Lamar, to “Sicko Mode” by Travis Scott, to tracks he’s made for Beyonce, Nas, and the Jay-Z & Kanye album Watch the Throne. So I was really excited to talk to him, and when I asked him which song from his incredible catalog he wanted to talk about, I was really moved by his choice. He picked “Racks in the Middle” by Nipsey Hussle, featuring Roddy Ricch. Nipsey Hussle was a rapper and community activist from LA whose career was cut short, tragically, when he was murdered in 2019. He’d released just one album, Victory Lap. “Racks in the Middle” was the last song released in Nipsey’s lifetime. It went platinum, and a year after his death, it won the Grammy for Best Rap Performance, in 2020. This episode features a few short clips from a video that Nipsey Hussle made for the website Genius, back in 2019. There’s a link to the full video that he made in the shownotes. But here in the studio, to tell the story, I spoke to Hit-Boy about how “Racks in the Middle” came together.
To learn more, visit songexploder.net/hit-boy.
Air - Playground Love (feat. Gordon Tracks)
The band Air is a duo from Versailles, France. Their first EP came out in 1995, followed by their critically acclaimed debut album, ‘Moon Safari,' which was an international hit. Then they made the music for the film ‘The Virgin Suicides,‘ which was written and directed by Oscar-winner Sofia Coppola, based on the novel by Jeffrey Eugenides. The movie came out in 1999, and it was Sofia Coppola’s first film. An album version of Air’s score came out in 2000, and it was nominated for a Brit award. Pitchfork put it at number four on their list of the best film scores of all time. In addition to the instrumental music that appears in the movie, Air also wrote a song for the end credits called “Playground Love.” That song featured Sofia Coppola’s future husband, Thomas Mars, from the French band Phoenix, on vocals. Phoenix was still a very new band, and he and Sofia hadn’t even met yet. Thomas appears on the song under the name Gordon Tracks. So for this episode, I spoke to all of them: Nicolas and JB from Air; Sofia Coppola; Thomas Mars; as well as Brian Reitzell, the music supervisor of the film.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/air.
Key Change: Rian Johnson on Wagner's 'Das Rheingold'
My guest today is director Rian Johnson, which is exciting for me, because I’ve been a huge fan of his ever since seeing his first feature film, ‘Brick,' in 2006. Since then, he’s made six more feature films, including ‘Looper‘ in 2012; ‘Star Wars: The Last Jedi‘ in 2017; the murder mystery ‘Knives Out‘ in 2019; and his most recent movie, another in the 'Knives Out' series, ‘Wake Up Dead Man,‘ which is already out in theaters, and comes to Netflix on December 12. I talked to Rian about a piece of music that had a profound impact on him, which was the overture to ‘Das Rheingold‘ by Richard Wagner.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/rian-johnson.
Jessie Reyez - Goliath
Jessie Reyez is a singer and songwriter originally from Toronto. She's won two of Canada's Juno awards, and she's been nominated for a Grammy. In addition to writing her own music, Jessie's been a songwriter on tracks by Calvin Harris, Dua Lipa, Sam Smith, Eminem, and many others. You're probably aware that there are songwriters and producers whose names you'll find over and over again in the credits for big hits; Jessie is one of them.
But for this episode, I talked to her about her own song "Goliath." And the day that she wrote that song, she happened to be in the studio with a bunch of other songwriters and producers. So I also talked to Jordan and Stefan Johnson, from the production team Monsters & Strangerz, and Jeff Gitelman, AKA Gitty. Between the three of them, their credits also include songs by Selena Gomez, Maroon 5, Alicia Keys, Mac Miller, and again, tons more.
When a group like this gets together to write music, they don't always know if they're going to be making a song that's going to get recorded and released by an artist somewhere down the line, or if the song's going to get recorded at all. But in the case of "Goliath," what came out was a song that was very personal to Jessie Reyez.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/jessie-reyez.
Key Change: Demi Adejuyigbe on The Strokes
My guest today is Demi Adejuyigbe. One of the things that makes Demi so special is how hard it is to summarize him in an intro like this, because he has so many talents and applies them in so many different ways. He is a standup comedian, with a brand new one-hour special out on Dropout TV. He co-hosted the podcasts Gilmore Guys and Punch Up the Jam. He’s a screenwriter, who wrote on TV shows like The Good Place. He’s famous on the internet for his parody songs, spoofing artists like Will Smith and Lana Del Rey; and for his September videos, where, for years, he made increasingly elaborate videos of himself, dancing to the Earth, Wind & Fire song. And he used the popularity of those videos to raise over a million dollars for charity. He’s also directed several music videos, including one that he made for one of my songs, back in 2022. And for this episode, we’re talking as much about a music video as the song within it. And that song is "You Only Live Once" by The Strokes.
Demi's new special, Demi Adejuyigbe is Going to do One (1) Backflip, is on Dropout TV.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/demi-adejuyigbe.
Clipse - The Birds Don't Sing
Clipse was formed in 1994 by two brothers: Gene Thornton Jr, aka Malice, and his younger brother Terrence Thornton, aka Pusha T. From the beginning, they’ve worked with producer Pharrell Williams, originally as part of the acclaimed production duo, The Neptunes. But then, there was a 16 year gap between the third Clipse album, which came out in 2009, and their most recent album, Let God Sort Em Out, which came out in July 2025. This November, they were nominated for 5 Grammys, including Album of the Year. They were also nominated for Best Rap Song, for “The Birds Don’t Sing.” It’s a song that they made after the death of both of their parents in the span of just a few months. For this episode, I asked Pusha T, Malice, and Pharrell about the making of that song, which also features contributions from John Legend and Stevie Wonder.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/clipse.
Buckingham Nicks - Frozen Love
On September 5, 1973, the first and only Buckingham Nicks album was released. It wasn’t a huge hit, but it was how the world was first introduced to the music of Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, before they went on to become members of Fleetwood Mac. Their time together in Fleetwood Mac led to some of the best-selling, most critically acclaimed, and most influential albums of all time. Their individual talents, their musical chemistry together, and the ups and downs of their romantic relationship all eventually became legendary.
And yet, despite all that, the Buckingham Nicks album went out of print not long after it came out. For over 50 years, it wasn’t available, until it finally got re-mastered and re-released in September 2025. So for this episode, I spoke to both Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham about the making of one of the songs from that album, called “Frozen Love.” It’s the only song on the album where they’re credited as co-writers, and it’s the song that led Mick Fleetwood to invite Lindsey Buckingham to join Fleetwood Mac. But Lindsey would only join if Stevie could, too, and that’s how that story began. So this episode is about a beginning and an ending. It’s the story of how Stevie and Lindsey first met, and how they made "Frozen Love," and how that song really led to the end of their band.
I also want to mention that not only was Buckingham Nicks out of print for all those decades, no one has heard the isolated tracks that you’re about to hear. To make this episode, there was an epic search for the original master tape from Sound City, the studio where they recorded the album with producer Keith Olsen. It took months, but the tape was finally tracked down and digitized, and it feels very special to be able to present this for the first time here, along with the memories and stories from Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/buckingham-nicks.
Fleetwood Mac - Go Your Own Way
Next week, I’m going to be publishing an episode with Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham about the making of the song “Frozen Love,” from their only album as the duo Buckingham Nicks. That song is what eventually led to them joining Fleetwood Mac. So in anticipation of next week’s episode, I thought it would be great to go back seven years and revisit this Fleetwood Mac episode from 2018, about the making of “Go Your Own Way.” I hope you enjoy it, and I hope you’ll come back to hear the Buckingham Nicks episode.
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Lindsey Buckingham is a singer-songwriter, a guitarist, and a producer. In 1974, he joined the band Fleetwood Mac, along with Stevie Nicks, his girlfriend at the time. A few year later, in 1977, Fleetwood Mac released the album Rumours, which would go on to sell over 40 million copies and become the eighth highest-selling album in history. In this episode, Lindsey Buckingham breaks down “Go Your Own Way," a song he wrote for that album about his relationship with Stevie Nicks.
For more, visit songexploder.net/fleetwood-mac.
A-ha - Take On Me
"Take On Me" by A-ha is an iconic hit of the 1980s. It came out in October 1985 with an equally iconic music video that helped define the age of MTV. It hit #1 in the US and in countries all over the world. And it's still massively popular today. It currently has over two and a half billion streams on Spotify. So, with all of that, it's easy to imagine that this was all inevitable. But actually, the song took so many steps and missteps before it became the hit that everybody knows. I talked to Paul Waaktaar-Savoy from A-ha, who wrote the original bones of the song back when he was a teenager in Norway, years before it came out. The song actually came out and flopped TWICE in the UK, before it found a foothold in the US. So for this episode, Paul took me through the whole history of the song, and all the different versions that existed. And he told me how he and his bandmates, Magne Furuholmen and Morten Harket, pushed and pushed and persevered. "Take On Me" was their first single as a band, and it made them the most successful Norwegian pop group of all time.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/a-ha.
Lady Gaga - Abracadabra
Lady Gaga is a singer, songwriter, producer, and actress from New York. She’s one of the biggest artists in the world. She’s also won 14 Grammys, 2 Golden Globes, and an Oscar. And in March 2025, she released her sixth album, Mayhem. For this episode, I talked to her about a song from that album called “Abracadabra.” She co-wrote it and co-produced it with Andrew Watt and Cirkut, and they recorded it in Rick Rubin’s studio, Shangri-La. That’s also where we recorded the interview for this episode.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/lady-gaga.
Key Change: David Chang on "I See a Darkness"
My guest today is Chef David Chang. He founded Momofuku Noodle Bar in 2004. That was just the start of his incredible career – he’s opened several restaurants, winning awards and Michelin stars along the way, and becoming a fixture in the upper echelon of food. He’s the host of the Netflix shows Ugly Delicious and Dinner Time Live, as well as his own podcast, The Dave Chang Show. For this episode, I talked to Dave about the song “I See a Darkness.” It's the title track on the album by Bonnie “Prince” Billy, aka Will Oldham, which came out in 1999. Later, Johnny Cash would cover “I See a Darkness” in 2000, as a duet with Will Oldham, as part of Johnny Cash’s acclaimed American series.
You can get Bonnie "Prince" Billy’s "I See a Darkness" on vinyl or digital here.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/david-chang.
Ethel Cain - Nettles
Hayden Anhedönia has been making music under the name Ethel Cain since 2019. But it’s not just a band name or a moniker; Ethel Cain is a fictional character, a sort of alter ego that Hayden’s been creating and world building around throughout her albums. The first Ethel Cain album, Preacher’s Daughter, came out in 2022. It ended up blowing up, and it made Hayden the first openly trans artist with an album in the top ten on the Billboard chart. In 2025, she put out the second Ethel Cain album, called Willoughby Tucker, I’ll Always Love You. For this episode, I talked to Hayden about how she made the song “Nettles.” As you’re about to hear, it took on a lot of different forms, over several years, before she got to the final version.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/ethel-cain.
Sam Fender - People Watching
Sam Fender is a singer and songwriter from the town of North Shields in England. He won the Brit Award for Best Rock/Alternative Act twice. His most recent album is called People Watching, and just like his first two albums, it went to #1 on the UK album charts. To help produce the album, Sam enlisted Adam Granduciel, the singer and frontman of the band The War on Drugs. For this episode, I talked to Sam, and his bandmate Joe Atkinson, about the title track from People Watching, and the long journey that it took to get made, from Sam’s kitchen, to the Hollywood Hills, to Abbey Road.
Key Change: Jia Tolentino on "I Love You Always Forever"
My guest today is Jia Tolentino. Jia is the author of the essay collection Trick Mirror, which was named one of the best books of 2019 by The New York Times Book Review, NPR, The Paris Review, and more. She won a National Magazine Award for her work at the New Yorker, where she’s been a staff writer since 2016. Her writing covers so many different topics, from Roe V. Wade to the internet to pop culture and music. And today, we’re going to talk about the 1996 pop hit “I Love You Always Forever” by Donna Lewis.
For more, visit songexploder.net/jia-tolentino.
Jay Som - Tenderness
Melina Duterte goes by the name Jay Som. She’s a singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist. She’s released three albums as Jay Som, and has produced, engineered, and mixed each one.
Her third album, Anak Ko, came out in August 2019. And in this episode, Melina breaks down a song from it called “Tenderness.”
To learn more, visit songexploder.net/jay-som.
Fall Out Boy - Sugar, We're Goin Down
Fall Out Boy is a band from Chicago that formed in 2001. Their first album, Take This To Your Grave, was a hit, especially in the punk rock world. When they put out their second album, though, in 2005, that was on a whole other scale. That album is called From Under the Cork Tree, and it went double platinum, and they were nominated for a Grammy for Best New Artist. For this episode, I talked to the band’s singer, Patrick Stump, about how they made their breakout hit from that album, the song “Sugar, We’re Goin Down.”
For more info, visit songexploder.net/fall-out-boy.
Gigi Perez - Sailor Song
Gigi Perez is a singer and songwriter from Florida, and at 25 years old, she’s already had so many ups and downs in her music career. She started sharing her songs on TikTok, where they got enough attention that she got signed to a major label deal, but that ultimately didn’t pan out. Soon after that, as an independent artist again, she had her biggest breakout hit, with “Sailor Song.” She released it in July 2024, and it went viral on TikTok. Now, it has over a billion streams on Spotify alone, and it’s a part of her new album, which came out in April 2025. In this episode, you’ll hear how the song evolved, from her first voice memo to the final version, which she recorded in her childhood bedroom. I talked to Gigi about how “Sailor Song” came about, and about all the different parts of herself that she put into it—her faith, grief, desire, and more.
For more info, visit songexploder.net/gigi-perez.
